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	<title>The Copywriting Maven &#187; Working with Clients</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.copywritingmaven.com/category/working-with-clients/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.copywritingmaven.com</link>
	<description>A copywriter shares tips, techniques, reviews &#038; cranky commentary</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
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			<item>
		<title>What Do Clients Really Mean When They Ask for &#8220;Different?&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://www.copywritingmaven.com/2008/09/03/when-clients-want-different/</link>
		<comments>http://www.copywritingmaven.com/2008/09/03/when-clients-want-different/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 22:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Roberta Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Occasional Rantings]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Working with Clients]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.copywritingmaven.com/?p=632</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
 photo credit: Mandi Maebe
&#8230; and what does it mean to you? To me it means get your all your fees in advance because chances are when they say &#8220;different&#8221; what they really want is &#8220;more of the same.&#8221;
Case in point. I&#8217;ve just spent the last several weeks - nose to the grindstone, fingers a&#8217; [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a title="IMG_6667" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/23155863@N03/2332471730/" target="_blank"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3031/2332471730_3c8e5110d8.jpg" border="0" alt="IMG_6667" width="395" height="263" /></a><br />
<small><a title="Attribution-NoDerivs License" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/2.0/" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.copywritingmaven.com/wp-content/plugins/photo_dropper/images/cc.png" border="0" alt="Creative Commons License" width="16" height="16" align="absmiddle" /></a> <a href="http://www.photodropper.com/photos/" target="_blank">photo</a> credit: <a title="Mandi Maebe" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/23155863@N03/2332471730/" target="_blank">Mandi Maebe</a></small></p>
<p>&#8230; and what does it mean to you? To me it means get your all your fees in advance because chances are when they say &#8220;different&#8221; what they really want is &#8220;more of the same.&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>Case in point.</strong> I&#8217;ve just spent the last several weeks - nose to the grindstone, fingers a&#8217; tapping - working on a 12 component B2B publication renewal series. Lots of DM, carrier teasers, a new form template, a few emails, and a list of talking points for telephone follow-up.</p>
<p>By themselves, most renewal series are pretty formulaic. Sometimes you start the renewal series during the &#8216;honeymoon&#8217; phase very early in the subscription. But, generally speaking, they tend to start about halfway through the subscription cycle &#8212; beginning with a soft, hiya-hiya approach, perhaps a special offer of some sort and ending with the usual urgent call.</p>
<p>Unlike the sexy and pricey front-end acquisitions promos, the back-end renewal series is the workhorse that ultimately drives the sales process. I like doing them for that reason. It&#8217;s all words and offers to your customers. The renewal series matters.</p>
<p>That is I usually like doing them. I imagine in time, I&#8217;ll like doing them again. But, and I mean it this time, when a client comes to me to write a &#8220;brand-new, sky&#8217;s the limit, anything you want Roberta&#8221; renewal series, trust me &#8230; I&#8217;m asking for the entire fee &#8230; upfront.</p>
<p>Why? Because they don&#8217;t really mean it. They think they want something different but when they see different, it makes them anxious. So you revise but with each revision you get closer to the copy they are, in fact, already using.</p>
<p>Here are a few of the tip-offs I should have spent more time listening to:</p>
<ul>
<li>This copy is too conversational; it doesn&#8217;t read like traditional B2B renewal copy.</li>
<li>We&#8217;re not sure our IT/database manager can pull that data from the existing records.</li>
<li>Make it sound more urgent (with 5 months to go on the subscription.)</li>
<li>Don&#8217;t tell them how many issues (or months) left on the subscription.</li>
<li>Do we have to be so specific?</li>
<li>Do we have to be so negative?</li>
<li>Don&#8217;t say &#8220;best rates available&#8221; because maybe they&#8217;re not.</li>
<li>Don&#8217;t mention &#8220;Send no money now. Be billed later.&#8221; even in the 12th effort. It might hurt the pay-up rate. [My head was exploding with "FROM SUBSCRIBERS WHO HAVEN'T RESPONDED TO THE FIRST 11?"]</li>
<li>Don&#8217;t mention the guarantee.</li>
</ul>
<p>And oh, did I mention that the series was to be generic and work for dozens of their publications? Other challenges? No additional savings &#8230; or issues &#8230; or freebies &#8230; to encourage response.</p>
<p>Still I wrote a very nice series. Still, whatever it is they wanted, I failed to hit their sweet spot. In retrospect, I don&#8217;t know why I was surprised. The tell tales signs abounded. Especially when my one enthusiastic contact became a committee of &#8220;Gee, I dunno&#8221; and every revision needed an hour&#8217;s phone conference.</p>
<p>The project status? Dead like doornail. No surprise there.</p>
<p>Ah well. It&#8217;s good to be back. Kids have returned to school and I&#8217;m enjoying the calm &#8230; and a weekly league bowling with hubby.</p>
<p>Yes. I said bowling. Lots more to write on many more topics. Stay tuned.</p>
<ul id="de6532">
<li id="de6533" style="text-align: left;"><em id="de6534">Enjoyed this post? <a id="de6535" href="../subscribe">Subscribe to The Copywriting Maven by email or  RSS</a></em></li>
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<li id="de6538" style="text-align: left;"><em id="de6539">My favorite resource on <a id="KonaLink0" class="kLink" style="position: static; text-decoration: underline ! important;" href="../#" target="_top"><span style="font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; position: static; color: #ffa500;"><span class="kLink" style="font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; position: static; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; color: #ffa500;">landing </span><span class="kLink" style="font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; position: static; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; color: #ffa500;">pages</span></span></a> - The ultimate guide to <a id="KonaLink8" class="kLink" style="position: static; text-decoration: underline ! important;" href="../#" target="_top"><span style="font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; position: static; color: #ffa500;"><span class="kLink" style="font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; position: static; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; color: #ffa500;">writing</span></span></a> and designing effective <a id="KonaLink1" class="kLink" style="position: static; text-decoration: underline ! important;" href="../" target="_top"><span style="font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; position: static; color: #ffa500;"><span class="kLink" style="border-bottom: 1px solid orange; font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; padding-bottom: 1px; position: static; background-color: transparent; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; color: #ffa500;">landing </span><span class="kLink" style="border-bottom: 1px solid orange; font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; padding-bottom: 1px; position: static; background-color: transparent; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; color: #ffa500;">pages</span></span></a> - <a id="de6543" href="http://www.sherpastore.com/LandingPageHandbook.html?9333">Marketing  Sherpa’s Landing Page Handbook, 2008</a></em></li>
</ul>
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		<item>
		<title>Shocking Video! Hotter-than-Hot Lead Generation through Simple Education?</title>
		<link>http://www.copywritingmaven.com/2008/05/05/lead-generation-video/</link>
		<comments>http://www.copywritingmaven.com/2008/05/05/lead-generation-video/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 10:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Roberta Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Best TOOLS]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Promoting Your Biz]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Web Copy Tips &amp; Tools]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Working with Clients]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[lead generation]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.copywritingmaven.com/?p=406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[60,234 quality leads by just, like, teaching people? Is there ever any such thing as too many qualified leads for the smart online entrepreneur?
As many of you know, most of my marketing consulting and copywriting work is B2B. I like B2C, but I love B2B. Problem? Solution! It&#8217;s a clean and elegant proposition with endless [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>60,234 quality leads by just, like, teaching people? Is there ever any such thing as too many qualified leads for the smart online entrepreneur?</strong></p>
<p>As many of you know, most of my marketing consulting and copywriting work is B2B. I like B2C, but I love B2B. Problem? Solution! It&#8217;s a clean and elegant proposition with endless possibilities. B2B also defines my own client prospecting efforts, as I imagine it does yours, too. That&#8217;s why I got curious about a new B2B product that is creating some major buzz in its own right.</p>
<p>Especially in tough times like now, marketers (folks like you and me) need to pay a new kind of attention to our businesses. (No whining about being a writer rather than a marketer. Remember, I&#8217;m the girl who views freelance copywriters AS business owners.)</p>
<p>And not just the same-old, same-old either.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I think you&#8217;ll be as intrigued as I was about the guy in this video. He&#8217;s onto something I encourage you to check out for yourself.</p>
<p>You might even call it shocking, but only in a good way. You can <a href="http://www.whitepapersource.com/cmd.php?Clk=2373071">see the video here</a> and learn how it worked for big-name companies (and how he got 60,000+ leads for his business.) No need to do anything special, it will just start playing.</p>
<p>…But here&#8217;s really shocking (okay, not shocking. Let&#8217;s call it amazing) part:</p>
<p>1. Prospects literally line up, ready to purchase after experiencing this.</p>
<p>2. Following the strategy, businesses are becoming the thought leaders of their industries.</p>
<p>3. Once set in motion, the strategy keeps generating quality leads literally for years. (Because I&#8217;m lazy, I love systems that continue to work for me without any extra effort on my part.)</p>
<p>Now who wouldn&#8217;t want a little piece of that working for you!</p>
<p><strong>Here&#8217;s the kicker. What he reveals does NOT involve email, blogs (what, no blogs?), social networking or any of the usual web marketing suspects.</strong></p>
<p>Best part? He&#8217;s actually giving away a bunch of his videos.</p>
<p>(If you&#8217;re wondering &#8230; yes, I&#8217;ve seen them and when you have, too, I think you&#8217;ll agree the content is pretty exceptional, especially the second one!)</p>
<p><strong>Could it work for creative professionals like you and me?</strong></p>
<p>Take a look, see what you think. (BTW, there&#8217;s nothing for sale at this site right now. <a href="http://www.whitepapersource.com/cmd.php?Clk=2373071">Just follow the link</a> and the video will begin playing.)</p>
<p>Transparency Alert: This is an affiliate-based promotion.</p>
<p id="de6530" class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><em id="de6531"> </em></p>
<ul id="de6532">
<li id="de6533" style="text-align: left;"><em id="de6534">Enjoyed this post? <a id="de6535" href="../subscribe">Get free updates by email or RSS</a></em></li>
<li id="de6536" style="text-align: left;">Need a copy critique or a consult? <a id="de6537" href="mailto:roberta.rosenberg@gmail.com">Contact the Maven</a></li>
<li id="de6538" style="text-align: left;"><em id="de6539">The ultimate guide to writing and designing effective <a id="KonaLink1" class="kLink" style="position: static; text-decoration: underline ! important;" href="../" target="_top"><span style="font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; position: static; color: #ffa500;"><span class="kLink" style="border-bottom: 1px solid orange; font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; padding-bottom: 1px; position: static; background-color: transparent; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; color: #ffa500;">landing </span><span class="kLink" style="border-bottom: 1px solid orange; font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; padding-bottom: 1px; position: static; background-color: transparent; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; color: #ffa500;">pages</span></span></a> - <a id="de6543" href="http://www.sherpastore.com/LandingPageHandbook.html?9333">Marketing Sherpa’s Landing Page Handbook, 2008</a> </em><em id="de6544">(aff)</em></li>
</ul>
<p id="ssgu94" class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">
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		<item>
		<title>Holding Firm Part 2: Copywriters Ain&#8217;t the Only Ones Getting Dissed</title>
		<link>http://www.copywritingmaven.com/2008/04/24/copywriters-getting-dissed/</link>
		<comments>http://www.copywritingmaven.com/2008/04/24/copywriters-getting-dissed/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Roberta Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Occasional Rantings]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Running Your Biz]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Working with Clients]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[copywriting]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[marketing]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[value proposition]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.copywritingmaven.com/?p=373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
 photo credit: frotzed2
I was heartened to see how many folks took the time to comment on my original post about holding firm to our value.
That&#8217;s why I think, perhaps anyway, we&#8217;ll find some small comfort in the knowledge that we are not alone in our endless effort to keep our value proposition from sliding [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a title="no_whining" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/38525065@N00/84982525/" target="_blank"><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/84982525_901468161e_m.jpg" border="0" alt="no_whining" /></a><br />
<small><a title="Attribution-ShareAlike License" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.copywritingmaven.com/wp-content/plugins/photo_dropper/images/cc.png" border="0" alt="Creative Commons License" width="16" height="16" align="absmiddle" /></a> <a href="http://www.photodropper.com/photos/" target="_blank">photo</a> credit: <a title="frotzed2" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/38525065@N00/84982525/" target="_blank">frotzed2</a></small></p>
<p>I was heartened to see how many folks took the time to comment on my original post about holding firm to our value.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I think, perhaps anyway, we&#8217;ll find some small comfort in the knowledge that we are not alone in our endless effort to keep our value proposition from sliding away.</p>
<p>Consider these examples:</p>
<p><a href="http://codeclimber.blogspot.com/2008/04/all-i-need-is-programmer.html">From the programming/coding world</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Hey, so, we aren&#8217;t really prepared to pay. I mean there isn&#8217;t that much to it, it&#8217;s just a PHP website with a MySql database, I was hoping you could just throw it together as a favor. Oh well, thanks anyway&#8230;</em></p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.povonline.com/Hollywood.htm">From the wacky, zany world of entertainment</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p class="k8"><a name="Unfinanced"></a><em>If you&#8217;re a writer (or an artist or even an actor), folks are always trying to get you to write, draw or act for no money. </em></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="k8">I know I felt loads better reading these posts and essays. I&#8217;m sure you will, too.</p>
<p class="k8">Now as serendipity would have it, a few days later (or so) Michel Fortin wrote <a href="http://www.michelfortin.com/how-to-negotiate-better-copywriting-fees/">How to Negotiate Better Fees</a>. What you should know upfront?</p>
<blockquote><p><em>“The customers who are willing to pay you the least will always demand the most.”</em></p></blockquote>
<p>My addition to this spot-on axiom?</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Clients who know the least about marketing and the marketing process will be the hardest to satisfy and be convinced of your value.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>And yet we soldier on&#8230;</p>
<ul>
<li style="text-align: left;"><em>Enjoyed this post? <a href="http://www.copywritingmaven.com/subscribe">Get free updates by email or RSS</a></em></li>
<li style="text-align: left;">Need a copy critique or a consult? <a href="mailto:roberta.rosenberg@gmail.com">Contact the Maven</a></li>
<li style="text-align: left;"><em>The ultimate guide to writing and designing effective <a id="KonaLink1" class="kLink" style="position: static; text-decoration: underline ! important;" href="http://www.copywritingmaven.com/" target="_top"><span style="font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; position: static; color: #ffa500;"><span class="kLink" style="border-bottom: 1px solid orange; font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; padding-bottom: 1px; position: static; background-color: transparent; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; color: #ffa500;">landing </span><span class="kLink" style="border-bottom: 1px solid orange; font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; padding-bottom: 1px; position: static; background-color: transparent; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; color: #ffa500;">pages</span></span></a> - <a href="http://www.sherpastore.com/LandingPageHandbook.html?9333">Marketing Sherpa’s Landing Page Handbook, 2008</a> </em><em>(aff)</em></li>
</ul>
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		<title>Holding Firm: Thinking Thoughts on the Copywriting Value Proposition</title>
		<link>http://www.copywritingmaven.com/2008/04/15/copywriter-value-proposition/</link>
		<comments>http://www.copywritingmaven.com/2008/04/15/copywriter-value-proposition/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Roberta Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Occasional Rantings]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Running Your Biz]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Working with Clients]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[a whole new mind]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[copywriting]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[daniel pink]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[r-directed thinking]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[right brainers]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[value proposition]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.copywritingmaven.com/?p=319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
 photo credit: pfala
My good buddy, Tom Chandler at Copywriter Underground has generated a flurry of responses from other copywriter/writer colleagues in his post, Guess I Didn’t Want to Work For Free Badly Enough
It got me to thinking, because that&#8217;s what I do, about how do we maintain our value to our clients, current and [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a title="Dollars !" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/21313845@N04/2402698820/" target="_blank"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3219/2402698820_6606b5ca8a_m.jpg" border="0" alt="Dollars !" /></a><br />
<small><a title="Attribution-NoDerivs License" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/2.0/" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.copywritingmaven.com/wp-content/plugins/photo_dropper/images/cc.png" border="0" alt="Creative Commons License" width="16" height="16" align="absmiddle" /></a> <a href="http://www.photodropper.com/photos/" target="_blank">photo</a> credit: <a title="pfala" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/21313845@N04/2402698820/" target="_blank">pfala</a></small></p>
<p>My good buddy, Tom Chandler at <em>Copywriter Underground</em> has generated a flurry of responses from other copywriter/writer colleagues in his post, <a title="Permanent Link to Guess I Didn’t Want to Work For Free Badly Enough" rel="bookmark" href="http://copywriterunderground.com/2008/04/09/guess-i-didnt-want-to-work-for-free-badly-enough/">Guess I Didn’t Want to Work For Free Badly Enough</a></p>
<p>It got me to thinking, because that&#8217;s what I do, about how do we maintain our value to our clients, current and prospective, when the value we bring to revenue generation isn&#8217;t understood &#8212; or worse to my mind, respected.</p>
<p><strong>Two stories from the copywriter wars.</strong></p>
<p>Years ago when I actually left the office to meet with prospective clients, I had a series of meetings with a young entrepreneurial go-getter. We talked for what seemed like too many hours and I noodled some notes. I confirmed the specs of the job and gave him my estimate.</p>
<p>He was, in a word, aghast. &#8220;Roberta, why so much? it&#8217;s just words after all!&#8221; In response, I responded in my usual respectful but firm manner, &#8220;Yes, and a symphony is just notes unless you know how to put them together properly. I know how to make the words sing.&#8221; or something to that effect. I didn&#8217;t get the job, but was glad of it. He was already showing his PIA merit badge. (I should have quoted him double.)</p>
<p>That was then. Now here&#8217;s a quick story about now, like 20 or so years later.</p>
<p>I have a business acquaintance who, while not a marketer, also works in business communications. She recently asked if I&#8217;d review some of her work and offer some ideas. I said sure. I told her I could do a &#8220;drive-by&#8221; review and a few off-the-top-of-my-head suggestions or, if she preferred, something more detailed. &#8220;More detailed would be great&#8221;, she replied. So I provided her with my rates for a professional copy critique. &#8220;Oh&#8221;, she said, a little crestfallen. &#8220;I&#8217;ll have to get back to you.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sigh. From a colleague, no less.</p>
<p><strong>Okay, I lied. One more copywriter story.</strong></p>
<p>I had a B2B client who was one of a few companies in the US, maybe even the world, who does what he does. I had done some website work for him in the past, and he wanted to talk about a significant larger, more long-term relationship. Cool, I thought. So we talked, we drank coffee, and talked some more. I spent about a week carefully crafting my proposal and fee structure. I submitted and waited his response. Finally, after a few days, he called.</p>
<p>Again, we&#8217;re talking aghast. &#8220;I don&#8217;t pay my secretary this kind of money, Roberta!&#8221; Now, I was a secretary back in the day and I know how hard and undervalued that kind of work can be. Still, seeing my value as a revenue-generator being directly compared to what he pays his AA was um, disheartening.</p>
<p>I replied, again in my usual calm manner, as to what kind of monthly budget he had available for this multi-faceted project. He said $X. I said I&#8217;ll rework the numbers. I reduced the number of tasks from 7 to 2 and emailed it back to him with a note, &#8220;This is what $X buys.&#8221;</p>
<p>No, I didn&#8217;t get the job. But I&#8217;m thinking some poor schlub from Craigslist did.</p>
<p>In the final analysis, all we have to sell is our time and the talent/skills/expertise behind it. In a troublesome economy, it&#8217;s tempting to want to take anything at all despite being offered a low-ball price. But, without sounding preachy about it, we need to stand firm in our value.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s why: because we&#8217;re worth it (apologies to L&#8217;Oreal.)</p>
<p>I just finished reading, <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Whole-New-Mind-Right-Brainers-Future/dp/1594481717/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1208279849&amp;sr=1-2">A Whole New Mind: Why Right-Brainers Will Rule the Future</a></em>, <span class="by">by Daniel H. Pink. This is a great read that will keep you mulling and jotting notes on every page. But, for the purposes of this already too-long post, those of us skilled in conceptual synthesis - individuals who can take multiple-threads of information and make something new and magical happen, like copywriters - are perfectly positioned for success. </span></p>
<p><span class="by">(Making with the funny business, according to the author, is also a key R-directed skill in this brave, new, beyond-IT world. So I&#8217;m already thinking I&#8217;m a major 2-fer who&#8217;s worth even more to super-smart organizations savvy enough to hire me.)</span></p>
<p>So, let me ask you. Are you finding it harder and harder these days to keep your fees from shrinking? Are you downsizing tasks to keep from reducing your fees? What&#8217;s working and not working for you these days?</p>
<ul>
<li><em>Enjoyed this post? <a href="http://www.copywritingmaven.com/subscribe">Get free updates by email or RSS</a></em></li>
<li>Need a copy critique or a consult? <a href="mailto:roberta.rosenberg@gmail.com">Contact the Maven</a></li>
<li><em>The ultimate guide to writing and designing effective <a id="KonaLink1" class="kLink" style="position: static; text-decoration: underline ! important;" href="http://www.copywritingmaven.com/" target="_top"><span style="font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; position: static; color: #ffa500;"><span class="kLink" style="border-bottom: 1px solid orange; font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; padding-bottom: 1px; position: static; background-color: transparent; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; color: #ffa500;">landing </span><span class="kLink" style="border-bottom: 1px solid orange; font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; padding-bottom: 1px; position: static; background-color: transparent; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; color: #ffa500;">pages</span></span></a> - <a href="http://www.sherpastore.com/LandingPageHandbook.html?9333">Marketing Sherpa’s Landing Page Handbook, 2008</a> </em><em>(aff)</em></li>
</ul>
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		<title>I Hate Logos - The Downside to Being a Value-Added Marketing Copywriter</title>
		<link>http://www.copywritingmaven.com/2008/03/24/i-hate-logos-the-downside-to-being-a-value-added-marketing-copywriter/</link>
		<comments>http://www.copywritingmaven.com/2008/03/24/i-hate-logos-the-downside-to-being-a-value-added-marketing-copywriter/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Roberta Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Occasional Rantings]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Working with Clients]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[copywriters by design]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[copywriters who design]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[designing frustrations]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[logo design]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[value-added copywriters]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.copywritingmaven.com/2008/03/24/i-hate-logos-the-downside-to-being-a-value-added-marketing-copywriter/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
This is a short rant. You&#8217;ve been advised.
I learned long ago that when it came to developing/writing/producing a direct mail package or a website, it was always the smarter move to force the client to view the content first before we seriously considered anything about the design. (This isn&#8217;t a knock against my designer colleagues. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/96/243329799_a25f36320f_t.jpg" style="cursor: pointer" class="yfsc_image" id="yfsc_1_24328811@N00" align="undefined" /></p>
<p>This is a short rant. You&#8217;ve been advised.</p>
<p>I learned long ago that when it came to developing/writing/producing a <span class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1206396439_0">direct mail package</span> or a website, it was always the smarter move to force the client to view the content first before we seriously considered anything about the design. (This isn&#8217;t a knock against my designer colleagues. You&#8217;ll understand why I do this in a moment.) If absolutely pretty-pleased, I might offer a pencil sketch, but nothing pretty. No color, no shiny objects to distract.</p>
<p><strong>My goal is to get through the first revision and then start noodling the look.</strong></p>
<p>Why? Because the moment you put a picture, a font, and a PMS book or online equivalent in front of a client &#8212; or anyone else for that matter, even me &#8212; you can forget the message. People only see the visuals. We all get lost in the colors and typography and our personal aesthetic &#8212; and we lose precious time off a production schedule &#8212; and invariably no one is happy.</p>
<p>My real preference is for the client to already have their logo in place. That saves everyone a huge amount of design time and we can concentrate on the site or promotion framework. But when they don&#8217;t &#8230; well, you know. I get cranky. My zip-along production schedule begins to hit slo-mo and everything begins to ..s..l..o..w&#8230;.  d..o..w..n&#8230;</p>
<ul>
<li>This is me when the logo isn&#8217;t done on my watch <img src="http://www.copywritingmaven.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley" /></li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li>This me when I&#8217;m sheparding the process <img src="http://www.copywritingmaven.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" class="wp-smiley" /></li>
</ul>
<p>Most of the time, I&#8217;m happy to be the font (<em>oops, marketing pun!</em>) of all marketing knowledge and wisdom. I&#8217;m usually pretty good at it, too.</p>
<p>But there are times, like now, when our agreed-upon color theme has moved from here to possibly there that just writing the words and letting others design &#8216;em feels pretty damn good &#8212; almost like a vacation.</p>
<p>Know what I mean?</p>
<p>If you do, feel free to share your own related rant here. I know I&#8217;ll feel much better and I bet so will you.</p>
<ul>
<li><em wmby0="0" rmuc5="0" tbx6a="0" od3nt="0" nvqai="0" _rqbk="0" pwa2x="0" dndps="0">Enjoyed this post? <a href="http://www.copywritingmaven.com/subscribe/" wmby0="0" rmuc5="0" tbx6a="0" od3nt="0" nvqai="0" _rqbk="0" pwa2x="0" dndps="0">Get free updates by email or  RSS</a></em></li>
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<li><em wmby0="0" rmuc5="3" tbx6a="0" od3nt="0" nvqai="3" _rqbk="0" pwa2x="3" dndps="0">The ultimate guide to writing and designing effective <a href="http://www.copywritingmaven.com//" class="kLink" id="KonaLink3" style="position: static; text-decoration: underline ! important" target="_top"><font style="font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; color: orange ! important; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; position: static" color="orange"><span class="kLink" style="font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; color: orange ! important; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; position: static"></span></font></a><a href="http://www.copywritingmaven.com//" class="kLink" id="KonaLink1" style="position: static; text-decoration: underline ! important" target="_top"><font style="font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; color: orange ! important; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; position: static" color="orange"><span class="kLink" style="border-bottom: 1px solid orange; font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; padding-bottom: 1px; color: orange ! important; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; position: static; background-color: transparent" wmby0="0" rmuc5="0" nvqai="0" _rqbk="0" pwa2x="0" dndps="0">landing </span><span class="kLink" style="border-bottom: 1px solid orange; font-weight: 400; font-size: 12px; padding-bottom: 1px; color: orange ! important; font-family: arial,verdana,geneva,sans-serif; position: static; background-color: transparent" wmby0="0" rmuc5="0" nvqai="0" _rqbk="0" pwa2x="0" dndps="0">pages</span></font></a> - <a href="http://www.sherpastore.com/LandingPageHandbook.html?9333" wmby0="0" rmuc5="0" tbx6a="0" od3nt="0" nvqai="0" _rqbk="0" pwa2x="0" dndps="0">Marketing  Sherpa’s Landing Page Handbook, 2008</a> </em><em wmby0="0" rmuc5="0" tbx6a="0" od3nt="0" nvqai="0" _rqbk="0" pwa2x="0" dndps="0">(aff)</em></li>
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